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	<title>Comments on: 41. AYN RAND: The question</title>
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	<description>Cartoon quotes from inspirational folks</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 19:30:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Richard P.</title>
		<link>http://zenpencils.com/comic/41-ayn-rand-the-question/#comment-28137</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 May 2013 17:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zenpencils.com/?p=568#comment-28137</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The notion that mainstream conservatives find inspiration in Ayn Rand is largely exaggerated. (You&#039;re thinking of Libertarians or the Tea Party movement, not conservatism). As a lifelong conservative, I can tell you that many prominent conservative thinkers of Rand&#039;s time saw her and her movement as a joke. She was anti-family, anti-Christian, and in the end she despised Reagan and Goldwater (for not accepting her philosophy). She even hated Libertarians for not going far enough in their market absolutism.

&quot;[Ayn Rand&#039;s] exclusion from the conservative community was, I am sure, in part the result of her desiccated philosophy&#039;s conclusive incompatibility with the conservative&#039;s emphasis on transcendence, intellectual and moral; but also there is the incongruity of tone, that hard, schematic, implacable, unyielding dogmatism that is in itself intrinsically objectionable, whether it comes from the mouth of Ehrenburg, or Savonarola, or Ayn Rand.&quot;
 -- introduction to American Conservative Thought in the Twentieth Century by William F. Buckley

Ayn Rand was not a conservative, she was a broken woman who wrote books for teenaged misfits to latch on to and gain a false sense of power (that&#039;s why admirers of Rand are so ubiquitous on the Internet.) A true conservative would never embrace the values outlined in her books.

ps. the two terms &quot;ultra conservative&quot; and &quot;rights of the rich&quot; are perfectly clear unless you&#039;ve been living under a rock since 1969. They&#039;re the antithesis to the terms &quot;far left&quot; and &quot;welfare queen enabler&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The notion that mainstream conservatives find inspiration in Ayn Rand is largely exaggerated. (You&#8217;re thinking of Libertarians or the Tea Party movement, not conservatism). As a lifelong conservative, I can tell you that many prominent conservative thinkers of Rand&#8217;s time saw her and her movement as a joke. She was anti-family, anti-Christian, and in the end she despised Reagan and Goldwater (for not accepting her philosophy). She even hated Libertarians for not going far enough in their market absolutism.</p>
<p>&#8220;[Ayn Rand's] exclusion from the conservative community was, I am sure, in part the result of her desiccated philosophy&#8217;s conclusive incompatibility with the conservative&#8217;s emphasis on transcendence, intellectual and moral; but also there is the incongruity of tone, that hard, schematic, implacable, unyielding dogmatism that is in itself intrinsically objectionable, whether it comes from the mouth of Ehrenburg, or Savonarola, or Ayn Rand.&#8221;<br />
 &#8212; introduction to American Conservative Thought in the Twentieth Century by William F. Buckley</p>
<p>Ayn Rand was not a conservative, she was a broken woman who wrote books for teenaged misfits to latch on to and gain a false sense of power (that&#8217;s why admirers of Rand are so ubiquitous on the Internet.) A true conservative would never embrace the values outlined in her books.</p>
<p>ps. the two terms &#8220;ultra conservative&#8221; and &#8220;rights of the rich&#8221; are perfectly clear unless you&#8217;ve been living under a rock since 1969. They&#8217;re the antithesis to the terms &#8220;far left&#8221; and &#8220;welfare queen enabler&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Yourself? Not anymore. &#8211; nullrend</title>
		<link>http://zenpencils.com/comic/41-ayn-rand-the-question/#comment-28102</link>
		<dc:creator>Yourself? Not anymore. &#8211; nullrend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 May 2013 07:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zenpencils.com/?p=568#comment-28102</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] AYN RAND: The question. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] AYN RAND: The question. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dex Sinister</title>
		<link>http://zenpencils.com/comic/41-ayn-rand-the-question/#comment-27911</link>
		<dc:creator>Dex Sinister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 May 2013 17:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zenpencils.com/?p=568#comment-27911</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is terribly amusing that so much vitriol in this flood of comments is spewed out towards an author who spends 1,200 pages in Atlas Shrugged telling people &quot;Check your premises&quot; and more generally &quot;Think for yourself&quot;, while espousing the values of half the Founding Fathers of the U.S. (the Jeffersonian, rather than Hamiltonian sorts), and asserting that not a single person is born with a saddle on their backs, destined to be ridden for the ease of others. 

Rand was far from being perfect as a human being, (a trait shared by ~100% of the politicians those who hate her admire so much), but her central &quot;sin&quot; was not being &quot;mean&quot;, but having the annoying habit of constantly pointing out that all ideas have foundations -- and that the prettiest and most beguiling idea in the world is simply an airy-fairie castle in the clouds, if the premises that it is based on are false in reality. 

In the abstract, Rand is hated most because she had a very annoying way of asking &quot;What&#039;s behind that curtain, over there?&quot;, or &quot;It&#039;s a lovely statue of a horse, but has anyone thought to ask why they gave it to us, or why it has a trap door?&quot;

Rand, on questioning:
&quot;The moral cannibalism of all hedonist and altruist doctrines lies in the premise that the happiness of one man necessitates the injury of another.&quot;

&quot;Freedom is the first requirement of &#039;the public interest&#039;...achievements rest on that foundation—and cannot exist without it.&quot;

&quot;Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.&quot;

&quot;Force and mind are opposites; morality ends where a gun [compulsion] begins.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is terribly amusing that so much vitriol in this flood of comments is spewed out towards an author who spends 1,200 pages in Atlas Shrugged telling people &#8220;Check your premises&#8221; and more generally &#8220;Think for yourself&#8221;, while espousing the values of half the Founding Fathers of the U.S. (the Jeffersonian, rather than Hamiltonian sorts), and asserting that not a single person is born with a saddle on their backs, destined to be ridden for the ease of others. </p>
<p>Rand was far from being perfect as a human being, (a trait shared by ~100% of the politicians those who hate her admire so much), but her central &#8220;sin&#8221; was not being &#8220;mean&#8221;, but having the annoying habit of constantly pointing out that all ideas have foundations &#8212; and that the prettiest and most beguiling idea in the world is simply an airy-fairie castle in the clouds, if the premises that it is based on are false in reality. </p>
<p>In the abstract, Rand is hated most because she had a very annoying way of asking &#8220;What&#8217;s behind that curtain, over there?&#8221;, or &#8220;It&#8217;s a lovely statue of a horse, but has anyone thought to ask why they gave it to us, or why it has a trap door?&#8221;</p>
<p>Rand, on questioning:<br />
&#8220;The moral cannibalism of all hedonist and altruist doctrines lies in the premise that the happiness of one man necessitates the injury of another.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Freedom is the first requirement of &#8216;the public interest&#8217;&#8230;achievements rest on that foundation—and cannot exist without it.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Force and mind are opposites; morality ends where a gun [compulsion] begins.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Anand Jeyahar</title>
		<link>http://zenpencils.com/comic/41-ayn-rand-the-question/#comment-27744</link>
		<dc:creator>Anand Jeyahar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zenpencils.com/?p=568#comment-27744</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OOps forgot the fb page link here it is .. https://www.facebook.com/AynRandInstitute/posts/10151605920137534]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OOps forgot the fb page link here it is .. <a href="https://www.facebook.com/AynRandInstitute/posts/10151605920137534" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/AynRandInstitute/posts/10151605920137534</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anand Jeyahar</title>
		<link>http://zenpencils.com/comic/41-ayn-rand-the-question/#comment-27743</link>
		<dc:creator>Anand Jeyahar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zenpencils.com/?p=568#comment-27743</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Given the amount strong opinions i won&#039;t add much opinion. Am commenting on this thread for this Original Comment is what i find most similar. 
Anyway, if you still**  haven&#039;t read her book, my suggestion is to instead subscribe to her fb page or some other stream of regular quotes and then pick a book out of which quote you like most. 

Like somebody else mentioned i read  Atlas Shrugged before Fountainhead*  and think it is more rigorous(in character depiction)  of her ideas and principles than Fountainhead and would recommend that.

* -- I haven&#039;t read anything outside. Did try reading Anthem but gave up. 

** -- because this comic is a year old, no other insinuations intended :-P]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given the amount strong opinions i won&#8217;t add much opinion. Am commenting on this thread for this Original Comment is what i find most similar.<br />
Anyway, if you still**  haven&#8217;t read her book, my suggestion is to instead subscribe to her fb page or some other stream of regular quotes and then pick a book out of which quote you like most. </p>
<p>Like somebody else mentioned i read  Atlas Shrugged before Fountainhead*  and think it is more rigorous(in character depiction)  of her ideas and principles than Fountainhead and would recommend that.</p>
<p>* &#8212; I haven&#8217;t read anything outside. Did try reading Anthem but gave up. </p>
<p>** &#8212; because this comic is a year old, no other insinuations intended <img src='http://maxcdn.zenpencils.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':-P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Brian Booth</title>
		<link>http://zenpencils.com/comic/41-ayn-rand-the-question/#comment-27072</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Booth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 00:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zenpencils.com/?p=568#comment-27072</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gav,
As a newcomer to your site, I am glad that you are adding your excellent artwork to a variety of quotes and poems.  Not all of us will like, or agree with each one, and that is as it should be.  A quote attributed to Voltaire:  &quot;I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it.&quot;  Keep the variety (and discussions) coming!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gav,<br />
As a newcomer to your site, I am glad that you are adding your excellent artwork to a variety of quotes and poems.  Not all of us will like, or agree with each one, and that is as it should be.  A quote attributed to Voltaire:  &#8220;I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it.&#8221;  Keep the variety (and discussions) coming!</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Booth</title>
		<link>http://zenpencils.com/comic/41-ayn-rand-the-question/#comment-27068</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Booth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 00:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zenpencils.com/?p=568#comment-27068</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fura, you clearly know virtually nothing about Ayn Rand, or her philosophy.  Your comment that &quot;I go the randian path and take what I need, I’m a criminal. If I break into one of those wealthy homes, rob them of their wealth, sell it for the surgery that I need, and spend the rest on others who need it, I’d be arrested. However I would simply be doling out what was done to me, and by Rand it would be fine.&quot;  Nonsense!  If you know her philosophy, then this statement is an outright lie.  I&#039;ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you don&#039;t know her philosophy, and thus are simply mistaken, instead of a deliberate liar.  Ayn Rand was a staunch defender of individual rights, and was quite clear in stressing that in order for your rights to be respected by others, YOU must respect their rights as well.  According to her philosophy: NO!  You may not violate someone else and break into their home and steal their property!

You also state &quot;In a Randian world there should be no police.&quot;  You couldn&#039;t be more wrong.  Ayn Rand frequently spoke about what she considered the 3 proper functions of government: the military, to protect our rights from foreign aggressors; the police, to protect our rights from internal (criminal) aggressors, and a judicial system to settle disputes, both criminal and civil.

The quote used here is to illustrate determination and perseverance in the attainment of your legitimate goals - not your illegal ones.  Misinterpretation is a risk when a quote is taken out of context.  Still, the degree of malevolence exhibited in your comments, in an effort to denigrate Ayn Rand and her philosophy, makes me suspect that there is more to your grossly inaccurate statements, besides a simple misinterpretation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fura, you clearly know virtually nothing about Ayn Rand, or her philosophy.  Your comment that &#8220;I go the randian path and take what I need, I’m a criminal. If I break into one of those wealthy homes, rob them of their wealth, sell it for the surgery that I need, and spend the rest on others who need it, I’d be arrested. However I would simply be doling out what was done to me, and by Rand it would be fine.&#8221;  Nonsense!  If you know her philosophy, then this statement is an outright lie.  I&#8217;ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you don&#8217;t know her philosophy, and thus are simply mistaken, instead of a deliberate liar.  Ayn Rand was a staunch defender of individual rights, and was quite clear in stressing that in order for your rights to be respected by others, YOU must respect their rights as well.  According to her philosophy: NO!  You may not violate someone else and break into their home and steal their property!</p>
<p>You also state &#8220;In a Randian world there should be no police.&#8221;  You couldn&#8217;t be more wrong.  Ayn Rand frequently spoke about what she considered the 3 proper functions of government: the military, to protect our rights from foreign aggressors; the police, to protect our rights from internal (criminal) aggressors, and a judicial system to settle disputes, both criminal and civil.</p>
<p>The quote used here is to illustrate determination and perseverance in the attainment of your legitimate goals &#8211; not your illegal ones.  Misinterpretation is a risk when a quote is taken out of context.  Still, the degree of malevolence exhibited in your comments, in an effort to denigrate Ayn Rand and her philosophy, makes me suspect that there is more to your grossly inaccurate statements, besides a simple misinterpretation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://zenpencils.com/comic/41-ayn-rand-the-question/#comment-25846</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Apr 2013 19:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zenpencils.com/?p=568#comment-25846</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d suggest Atlas Shrugged! It&#039;s a long, but good read.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d suggest Atlas Shrugged! It&#8217;s a long, but good read.</p>
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		<title>By: Fura</title>
		<link>http://zenpencils.com/comic/41-ayn-rand-the-question/#comment-25043</link>
		<dc:creator>Fura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zenpencils.com/?p=568#comment-25043</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not a strawman. I live in the bay area, I make five grand a year, I&#039;m well below the poverty line and work darn hard and for the aforementioned darn little. Despite this and the affluent area I live in, there&#039;s no dental care for what I need, and even the dental low-cost clinics are either full or simply tell me to &quot;find a better job&quot;. In this economy, and when the daily pain sometimes makes it hard to think, and interviews don&#039;t wait for you to have a &quot;good day&quot; to come in looking for employment. The state went the conservative route to try and solve it&#039;s debt problem, which meant slashing funding to health care, and where this &quot;socialist&quot; system before at least meant that you could be seen eventually, after the belt-tightening measures you&#039;re not seen at all. 

However if I go the randian path and take what I need, I&#039;m a criminal. If I break into one of those wealthy homes, rob them of their wealth, sell it for the surgery that I need, and spend the rest on others who need it, I&#039;d be arrested. However I would simply be doling out what was done to me, and by Rand it would be fine. I would have the will, the resources, and nobody&#039;s going to LET me loot their places, the family itself would have to STOP me... which is why I&#039;d go for the place when nobody&#039;s home. Hey, by Randian law it&#039;s their own fault, if they cared about their belongings, they should have invested in a security system worth its&#039; salt. By that token the police should be fine with me if I got away with it- in fact in a Randian world there should BE no police. You want compensation for what you do, and if my means are not enough to compensate you, I would seek the means to do so from those who can not defend their wealth. And yet when I pose this idea the moneyed sort in the area get all cagey, saying &quot;That&#039;s not the Objectivest way&quot;. Ah, so it is only the objectivist way when you already have the power and funds? Interesting, interesting.

But the kicker? The most down and dirty socialist place I&#039;ve ever lived? The most rotten commie-imitating corner of the globe? The most disgusting nanny state ever to rear it&#039;s pinko-liberal-hippie-tree-hugger head? That? Would be the military base I spend a good chunk of my life on. You had a house, you had food and clothes you could afford, you had schools and public works and community events out the wazoo. You never needed to fear being sick- and the doctors weren&#039;t the &quot;I&#039;ve spent a million dollars, so I&#039;m right about whatever I say&quot; sort, they knew they were human and fallible. You were also expected to have your house neat, obey laws which were downright stupid in some cases, and had less choice in the discounted products brought to you.

Strawman indicates that the argument has no merit. Well tell me, for it to have no merit then I&#039;d be able to take the wealth I need from others if I still couldn&#039;t find a better-paying job. Or who among the moneyed class would give me the 2500$ I need in return for the work I&#039;ve done, and for the work I&#039;d do to repay them?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not a strawman. I live in the bay area, I make five grand a year, I&#8217;m well below the poverty line and work darn hard and for the aforementioned darn little. Despite this and the affluent area I live in, there&#8217;s no dental care for what I need, and even the dental low-cost clinics are either full or simply tell me to &#8220;find a better job&#8221;. In this economy, and when the daily pain sometimes makes it hard to think, and interviews don&#8217;t wait for you to have a &#8220;good day&#8221; to come in looking for employment. The state went the conservative route to try and solve it&#8217;s debt problem, which meant slashing funding to health care, and where this &#8220;socialist&#8221; system before at least meant that you could be seen eventually, after the belt-tightening measures you&#8217;re not seen at all. </p>
<p>However if I go the randian path and take what I need, I&#8217;m a criminal. If I break into one of those wealthy homes, rob them of their wealth, sell it for the surgery that I need, and spend the rest on others who need it, I&#8217;d be arrested. However I would simply be doling out what was done to me, and by Rand it would be fine. I would have the will, the resources, and nobody&#8217;s going to LET me loot their places, the family itself would have to STOP me&#8230; which is why I&#8217;d go for the place when nobody&#8217;s home. Hey, by Randian law it&#8217;s their own fault, if they cared about their belongings, they should have invested in a security system worth its&#8217; salt. By that token the police should be fine with me if I got away with it- in fact in a Randian world there should BE no police. You want compensation for what you do, and if my means are not enough to compensate you, I would seek the means to do so from those who can not defend their wealth. And yet when I pose this idea the moneyed sort in the area get all cagey, saying &#8220;That&#8217;s not the Objectivest way&#8221;. Ah, so it is only the objectivist way when you already have the power and funds? Interesting, interesting.</p>
<p>But the kicker? The most down and dirty socialist place I&#8217;ve ever lived? The most rotten commie-imitating corner of the globe? The most disgusting nanny state ever to rear it&#8217;s pinko-liberal-hippie-tree-hugger head? That? Would be the military base I spend a good chunk of my life on. You had a house, you had food and clothes you could afford, you had schools and public works and community events out the wazoo. You never needed to fear being sick- and the doctors weren&#8217;t the &#8220;I&#8217;ve spent a million dollars, so I&#8217;m right about whatever I say&#8221; sort, they knew they were human and fallible. You were also expected to have your house neat, obey laws which were downright stupid in some cases, and had less choice in the discounted products brought to you.</p>
<p>Strawman indicates that the argument has no merit. Well tell me, for it to have no merit then I&#8217;d be able to take the wealth I need from others if I still couldn&#8217;t find a better-paying job. Or who among the moneyed class would give me the 2500$ I need in return for the work I&#8217;ve done, and for the work I&#8217;d do to repay them?</p>
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		<title>By: mrtt</title>
		<link>http://zenpencils.com/comic/41-ayn-rand-the-question/#comment-24975</link>
		<dc:creator>mrtt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Mar 2013 02:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zenpencils.com/?p=568#comment-24975</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Let the uninsured die in the street&quot; is a strawman.
Notice how insurance is not healthcare, doctors provide healthcare, insurance is just how one pays for it.
Socialist programs result in fewer doctors, fewer nurses, worse care care and fewer people getting treatment and living.
They result in panels determining rationing schema like waiting periods (let the people die in the streets waiting years for a treatment they need now) or declaring that women under 50 should not get mammograms and so on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Let the uninsured die in the street&#8221; is a strawman.<br />
Notice how insurance is not healthcare, doctors provide healthcare, insurance is just how one pays for it.<br />
Socialist programs result in fewer doctors, fewer nurses, worse care care and fewer people getting treatment and living.<br />
They result in panels determining rationing schema like waiting periods (let the people die in the streets waiting years for a treatment they need now) or declaring that women under 50 should not get mammograms and so on.</p>
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