144. The Artist-Troll War 1: HATRED BREEDS HATRED
So this is something a bit different: a multi-part story that will run over the next few weeks without any inspirational quotes except for the short title. This story has been brewing in my head for awhile now and I just had to put it on paper. I also wanted to see if I could generate a totally original story without having a quote as a kind of safety net. This is all me. It’ll also be the longest strip I’ve ever done – probably the equivalent of a 24-page comic book.
As for the story itself, I prefer to comment on it once it’s finished. Thanks for indulging me, we’ll get back to our regular programming once this story wraps up.
Discussion (230) ¬
I’ve been following zenpencils for months, and though I have loved each one, this is something that has been on my mind for a while, and its great to see it out there. Can’t wait to see the rest of your vision.
And this is a video that you may like if you haven’t seen it before – http://helpingeveryyouth.com/magazine/lizzie-velasquez-shares-her-story-and-asks-what-defines-you/
Thanks for all the inspiration, keep going strong! 🙂
Dude! You are on of those goes that steps out into the darkness to chase his dreams & you ending up lighting up a corner of the world & maybe even the whole world one day. I just want to thank you so much for giving me hope & helping me become a better person each day I wake up. If you had a comic book brand for sale I would buy it every week & tell all my friends to do the same. Your stuff is amazing, please keep going, lots of people need this creative wake up call!! All the best, I’ll definitely keep supporting you, congratulations! =D
It’s Hateulon! Only RationalityZilla can save us now!!!
Nice strip, totally a unique break from your conventional work.
I agree completely. Nice to see you experimenting with news ideas!
Oh man, this is going to be great! I love the concept, can’t wait to see where you take it!
Your work inspires me to think, feel, and do new things.
Well, that’s refreshing. Let’s see.
Keep up the good work!
http://xhamster.com/movies/1224340/man_fucks_teenboy_gay_boy_schwule_jungs_hd.html
Okay, seriously? A porn site? Wonder to whom this comic is addressed…
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Your blog is the worstly written piece of crap on the internet.
I’ll just assume that you are quoting the comic. Because this isn’t even a blog.
I thought he was being satirical, if “worstly” didn’t tip you off. It’s not exactly a real adverb, haha
MEH
That’s kinda dark, but interesting. Also many of your stories are cool without quotes, they very often speak for themselves. Keep it up
artwork = awesome
“Artist-Troll War” That isn’t trolling, it’s stating an opinion in an abrasive manner.
Agreed. Hate to be that guy, but some of the comments portrayed in the comic seem less trollish and more just negative opinions. “Her performance was thin and unconvincing…” I mean, that sounds like the usual theater review. There’s a difference between trolling and opinions.
I think the point is the pivotal difference between occasional criticism we may put out there on the interwebs and the very fine line which takes you to full on troll. In frame 2, that smile implies he’s crossed over. It’s the critic’s pleasure to tear other work down. Not to offer anything that could be constructive, just to rip on it. Thee pleasure taken in that is full on troll which we see in frame 4 has consumed him. That’s not healthy for anyone
I think its also worth noting that, while some may be well-formed opinions which are simply negative, we have spawned a culture intent on expressing negative opinions as often as possible, and with Facebook, twitter, and general comments threads, its possible to lay down your two cents worth any time, anywhere.
Plus, i think its addicting cathardic to cut someone down when you’re having a shit day; when someone has criticized you, you feel extra small, someone cuts you off in traffic, etc. You get to pass the buck to someone who has put themselves out there.
People’s biggest fear in the world is public speaking, because of the possibility that they will fail or be criticized. Anyone with an internet presence is slaying those dragons (i.e. the urge to hide until everything passes, and to hope no one notices us at all) every time they post, and every thing they post is a little piece of themselves.
So, while well-though-out, constructive criticism can help us to move forward, the majority of responses on the internet are simply not that caliber; they’re simply a mindless retort, intended, for whatever reason, to make someone else feel like shit.
I think starting a thoughtful conversation on any topic is a worthy endeavor; we spend countless hours debating bulling and its causes in schools, but how often do we, as adults, make the time to check our own bullying behavior? How often do we step up to keep other people in line by calling them on their needlessly negative input?
Way to go, Gavin. Keep up the good work, and help us keep our own wheels spinning in the process. 🙂
Oh sweet Jesus, my typos;
1) addictively*cathartic
2) well-thoughT-out
3)bullYing
Stating an abrasively negative opinion without offering anything construction is the MO of a troll. If you choose to employ the MO of a troll then you become one. I think that’s sort of the point of the strip? At least so far.
The strip itself it didn’t really set a hook for me. There’s potential there but I think, for me, it’s such a change from my expectations that I’m having trouble adjusting. (Which is not entirely constructive but at least gives Gavin some useful context to interpret the comment with 😛 )
WHOA! That’s some major sludge buildup. Who you gonna call? GHOSTBUSTERS! 😀
Yes! Definitely digging the homage to Ghostbusters II.
Exactly what I thought when they all started draining into the sewers. Maybe Gavin will pilot the Statue of liberty in an epic battle!
Totally agree. I love the tribute here to Ghostbusters. I’m glad someone else saw this in it 🙂
So far I’m interested.
Can’t wait to see how you envision defeat of this monster
with this http://www.goatse.info/hello.jpg
I suspect that the gentle Adasdas is not going to like this story since he keeps attempting to troll the comments. My suggestions to all of you would be to ignore everything he posts for a while.
That’s not hate I’m suggesting, just rewarding his behavior & links appropriately.
Brace yourselves, #troll comments are coming.
I hate you. ….
just kidding…..;-)
This is pure bullshit, why the hell… Kaboom!!!!
Definitely different from your usual approach …. but I like where this could be headed …. “Battle The Negativity” (especially if that’s all someone has to offer…)
that’s disturbing but I get the message I try not to be mean in comments on any sites which makes me hate facebook cause I see all the mean comments people post
A very large percentage of what you incorporated into the story IS bullying ad hominem vitriol which fits into the theme of the story, and I think it’s perfectly acceptable for those sorts of comments to be addressed as you have.
But you’re incorporating a fair amount of things that are critical but not vitriolic bullying. To me, by doing so, you’re introducing a major flaw into your comic, in my opinion, because you’re making the message less about what I think you intended it to be about — hateful online bullying (a cancerous subset of criticism) — and instead the comic inadvertently becomes about criticism as a whole, and about having negative preferences.
Criticism as a whole is necessary to art, and negative preferences is a basic human right for every consumer of art. “I don’t like it” is a perfectly acceptable reaction to created works of any kind. If you put yourself out there, you cannot demand of the world that its reaction be universally positive. (Cf. “Harrison Bergeron” by Vonnegut — it’s a quick short story read and locatable in the first page of Google results.)
To me, the line between hatred and criticism is thin, and it’s hard to agree upon a common line (or we as a society likely would’ve decided upon one long ago). But for me personally, I think some common elements to agree upon are that hatred is kneejerk, while criticism is usually well thought-out. Hatred often attacks the person, while criticism usually addresses the work. Hatred tries to make the person feel long-lastedly bad, while criticism can sometimes be phrased constructively but, if not, at least addressed the subject at hand. Hatred is particularly bad when it’s written as directed toward with the intention of the creator seeing it, although it’s not exclusive. It’s less bad when it’s a criticism made to another third party without the intention of the creator seeing it.
The old woman’s theater review — sometimes performances ARE thin and unconvincing, tired and uninspired, and it is perfectly okay to say so. And on the large screen of criticisms, to me, it is okay to say that someone’s a terrible comedian (it would be better to say they were terrible that night, or that they did not turn in a good performance at all), or that characters are weakly written. And, good God, it is ENTIRELY okay to say that someone is your least favorite director and that you find lens flares extremely annoying.
These are are all things one should be able to say without their head being depicted as filling up with bile and exploding.
*splode*
*squicheesquicheesquicheesquichee*
I get your point about the difference between criticism and hate as well as the necessity for thoughtful criticism. As I understand the comic, the issue is that the only thing being offered is the negative. So the old woman’s comment on the acting may well be valid, but is it really thoughtful criticism if it’s not placed within a bigger context–the kind of review or blog post provides? Further, the use of hashtags like #theaterisdead reinforce the idea that what’s being posted is about negativity, not thoughtful engagement with what’s being criticized.
I belive that you’re right Dan – I think what Gav was aiming at here is the matter of speech and choice of words and how people choose to express their opinion. It’s obviously legit to say you don’t like something, but to say it’s crap or is ruining a whole branch of art – that’s just hateful and distasteful.
And Gav – this is fantastic. You should always trust yourself that if and idea doesn;t leave your head and wants out – you should definitely let it out. This one has a very strong message. Can’t wait to see the rest.
I see the idea in a very different way. To me this is not about cyber bullying but about hate and negativity. Negative criticism is not bad, but it’s not good either. In a time where everybody is connected and you can see a movie and then go online and tell the actor that she did a bad job, we really need to start thinking if it’s necessary to give our opinion. Sure, tell your partner, your friends, kids. But the need to give your one in a million opinion straight to the author boggles me. Especially if it’s negative and given in a “I think” way. It usually doesn’t make the person feel better and it sure doesn’t make the receiver feel better. So what was really achieved?
It reminds me of a lecture I had recently about abusive parents and dealing with them. You see a parent yelling at their child in the store. You are bothered so you go and tell the parent what you think about them and that they shouldn’t treat their kid like that. And then you go home smiling, you got your message across. But your opinion made the parent even more angrier so when she gets home, she abuses her kids even more.
It doesn’t mean that we can’t give our opinion and criticism because we are always worried how the other person might react. But it sure does mean that we need to think more if our opinion is really valuable and what it might mean to the person getting it. It might just mean that we hurt them, and we didn’t even get that much joy out of speaking our mind.
I read your dissertation with interest, and I basically agree with you.
There’s a nuance where I disagree, though.
I think the old lady’s comment (and many of the other ones) can be interpreted in both ways, as being constructive (criticism) or destructive (plain trolling). That being so, even when they would constitute a perfectly valid comment in another context, in the context of this comic we see that they’re generated by bile and hatred. Therefore the subsequent brainscanners’ head explosion.
meh,.. your comic is lame, just stahp it, makes my eyes hur,..
OW!
*head explodes
While I abhor being senselessly cruel, you’re ripping on anyone who has ever shared a negative opinion on anything; which is everyone. Sure in a “perfect world” we would only have nice things to say to one another and keep our unfavorable opinions in some dark corner of our minds, but don’t you see how twisted that is? The world isn’t idealistic and you can’t honestly claim to have never had a negative opinion on something. That falls in with everyone thinking their own beliefs are superior and looking down on any others.
That said, I adore what you do and I’m excited to see where you take this, I’ve been following you since near the beginning and your work never fails to astound me. Just supplying some outside perspective.
Well said.
nescient things to say? Nope.
Thank goodness the guy on the toilet only had his head exploding.
Came here to laugh but this is the only thing that made me.
The frame that I had most connection to was the one with the 3 computer screen with thesocial network logos and the xcomments. It’s a reflection of us as an individual’s and as a society on how we value people base on social networking. It ties on with your other project where you had illustrated people in the train all glued to their mobile devices. It’s scary where we, as a collective of unique individuals, are heading.
Awesome! I love it. Artists/comics/musicians receive so much unwarranted criticism. Here’s something I did to help teach those people how to “critique” art versus criticize: http://unearthedcomics.com/comics/guide-to-critique-art/. I think the more of us out there promoting positive feedback and helpful critiquing, the better. Keep up your amazing work!
With undeserved praise comes unwarranted criticism.
It’s official! *ILoveYou* (with all respect to your wife and my boyfriend, of course!)
Fear of haters keeps a lot of people from shining their light in the world.
Rock on Gavin! Thanks for the inspiration and the laughs!
Totally agree with this comment 🙂
I think this article may, at first glance, be trying to make commentary on just negative criticism in general rather than about hateful trolling, but it isn’t. Taking the first guy’s example, pointing out one or two “okay” comments doesn’t change the fact that, collectively, this individual’s commentary is hate-filled and full of vitriol. One or two “okay” comments, just because they seem milder than the rest, doesn’t change the fact that this individual’s a troll. It says something about the person when the only things coming out of their mouth (or texts) are negative, not commentary about negative criticism in general. Maybe I’m alone in this interpretation, but I feel that, for length, Gavin didn’t depict all the other commentary the other individuals made before their heads exploded. ONE such negatively-phrased comment doesn’t justify turning into a part of a “hate monster”; becoming a person who enjoys deprecating other’s work, without ever taking the chance yourself (aka armchair critics) or at least giving equal attention to the strengths as to the weaknesses in another’s work, THAT is what turns one into just another part of the collective trend on the Net, aka the Hate Monster.
YOWZA! This time you’ve outdone yourself. I look forward to see where this is going, and I’m really excited to see what you can do when it comes to quoting the best of Gavin Aung Than, himself. Keep it up!
http://xxgifs.com/galleries/sexporngifs16/fat-man-masturbating-and-cum-execution.gif
Yep! This is exactly what was needed! An original story from ZenPencils. Keep on going!
I’m not really sure how to put this but especially the panel of the old lady who talks about an actress’ lackluster performance, I find that it’s more of looking at something critically and actually pointing out what went wrong? Like, I link artist-troll hate to those who say stuff like “Your work sucks” or something else that is just as equally baseless and without something constructive to work with. I also think it’s a manner of how you say it? Because some of the panels I can relate to why someone would not like something but it also depends on how you word it? Like for instance, it is true that some people may not find their favourite artist/musician/etc. as great as a certain point before but it ultimately depends on how they want to say it? Like the panel of the lady who loved an artist’s old stuff but doesn’t anymore, and the one regarding Ben Affleck’s Batman. I think they have valid reasons to not like the movie but the explanation isn’t followed through? And by focusing on that aspect, I find that this can be used against people who actually have a solid argument to constructively say why they didn’t like a certain piece of art/media for the exact same reasons, and becomes a “don’t say unkind things about something if you don’t like it” even if it’s something seen from a literary/artistic perspective on how something could’ve been done better. As an artist myself, I can see where this comic is coming from but I also feel that it’s lumping unnecessary hate together with some actual reasons to dislike which end up on the more negative side of the stick.
regarding the batman quote…how is a valid reason hating a movie even before is made just because the casting is not what some group expected? that’s pure trolling.
Oh! Wow! Can’t wait for the next parts. Come soon Come soon!
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I’m worried you’re being a bit negative here…
How do you tell the difference between someone who criticises one thing and someone who bitches constantly?
Bob, I think it can look that way, but if you’ve put your art out there and gotten it seen by many, you’ll be surprised how many people will hate on it – without it being constructive criticism – which is different.
I think the difference is intent. Are you intending with your comment to actually help, give a different perspective or contribute? Or, is it simply to pretend to judge from on high, when you (not you – the trolls 😉 aren’t doing anything creative or to contribute in the world.
I do dressage horse shows (basically make horses dance) and it has amazed me for my own haters to have come out. But, I ignore and continue to create my stuff and follow my inspiration – and Gavin’s work simply rocks.
What timing! As I was reading this strip on trolling, some colleagues from another department come over and troll on me! I’m in marketing, and put together an email that I thought was awesome – following best practice and inline with results we’ve seen from A/B tests of previous emails – and this was an email for my sales team. I’m trying to help them by writing their email since they wouldn’t do it, and I felt very good about it. They come over and rip into me that it doesn’t have a banner image, that the font is all black (where is larger, bolder and red font?), and that they don’t like where I placed the logo. Hmm… speaking of trolling.
whatever it is, let the flow be! your illustrations have always been perfect and I am eager to check out how this one turns out!!! 😀
I usually come to this site primarily for the art, secondly for the quotes. However this is a pleasant and interesting change. I look forward to seeing where this is going 🙂
I think I know a Shaolin Monk who can beat the monster 😉
Can’t believe I didnt think of that. 🙂
Thank You Hater! – by Clever Pie and Isabel Fay
I love your comics as much as the next person, but you really have mixed trolling with criticism, and so have most of the commenters here I’m afraid. Criticism does not ‘always have to include something positive’. Sarcasm does not imply trolling.
I guess I should not be criticising this comic for fear of classified as a troll! So “good job! I’ll wait for the next episode”
I kinda disagree with you on that. “Criticism” is defined as “the analysis and judgment of the merits and faults of a literary or artistic work”. I’ve been learning literature for so long, and criticism essays are normal in this study. You always need to tell the positive point of a particular piece, list out the faults, then explain how it can be improve. Simply saying, ‘meh, it sucks’ doesn’t constitute a criticism. Besides, if you have nothing good to say, that silence might be golden here.
Ok Zhafran. Then why is just saying “this is cool!” not frowned upon? Somehow it is justified to say unconstructive things as long as they are positive and boost the creators ego?
So artists/writers want to listen to either a balanced criticism or meaningless praise?
Because you are confusing mere praise with criticism. I am arguing that your usage of the word ‘criticism’ is inaccurate. As I stated that ‘criticism’ is ‘an analysis and judgment of the merits and faults of a literary or artistic work’. It needs three things, merits, faults, and ways of improvement. You on the other hand, see criticism as merely a negative point that need to be pointed out. That is not a criticism, that is showing dislike. Now, when people said ‘this is cool!’, it is not a criticism either. Its what you call a praise. A praise can thus be defined as ‘the expression of approval or admiration for someone or something’. As you can see, you do not have to explain anything, you simply states your admiration.
Your last question, personally, yes. People who put their life in art, or anything for that matter, need either balanced criticism or praise (no praise is meaningless, meaningless praise shows that it is forced).
Balanced criticism allows the individual to constantly improve himself, while praising, acts as a trigger to affirm that his work is had reached the intended level, thus allows him to foster more creativity and innovation for his next work/art.
I don’t know where you live, but that question seems weird. Here where I came from, it is literally taught in school, that you need to give a constructive criticism or simply a praise. You can state your dislike, but that cannot be equate with a criticism. Its a matter of politeness and courtesy.
If we understand that trolling/hating is not criticism, then not acceptable as you imply, but praise (that also is not criticism as you stated) is acceptable just because is good?
hating and meaningless praise are necesary in my humble opinion, as both can fuel your passion in the right direction (like this very comic gavin is making, everything, including hate can make good art)
Hate can definitely manifest as a monster raised from the culmination of negative thoughts and emotions. I really enjoyed your layout of the panels here, allowing the comic to flow through mostly visuals (and hate-slime).
Just curious: what happens to a person when they express love instead of hate?
Look forward to pt. 2 🙂
Well I wasn’t expecting that!.. Your comics are great, pay no heed of negativity!
HOLY exploding heads Gavin! Look at the discussion you have generated in just a few hours. Well the topic obviously hits home with people and this is only the first installment. What a compliment to what you have built here that there are so many moved to comment about your work.
Can’t wait to see part two!
I enjoyed this, I think it is an accurate description of what our social media is turning into. I am excited to see how the story continues 🙂
You are brilliant.
http://cdn30.optimecdn.com/oldmangaydaddycom/000/321/486/t960326x275327.jpg
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Great work! I enjoy reading each and every new comic you produce. This one seemed to have similarities with the Ghostbusters movie and their Red slime in the NYC sewers that reacted to hate.
Well, this is something new…
Can’t wait to see what happens next 🙂
I can’t wait to read the rest of this. 🙂
I hope you dont make this comic because of any hate you received,and if that is the case,ignore them,i guess is more the support you get from people online! 😀
And you make a great job helping and inspiring people with your comics! Keep up the good work!
Gav – I love it. In a strange way, I can feel being engulfed in self doubt and the despair this kind of criticism would bring to someone who has dared to put themselves out there. I agree with some people who think that negative criticism is something that comes with the territory – but do people really UNDERSTAND what it’s like to get this kind of feedback in such a public forum?? Would this old woman have the guts to yell out at a crowd of 100,000 people and declare “Theatre is dead!!” after seeing the play? Why is social media any different? It’s bloody amazing that you can make people feel this stuff Gavin. You are just so talented xx
Couldn’t agree more. Well said.
Hey… I try to be optimistic still dont think Ben Affleck would be a good batman :D… thats not hate.. that is disappointment :D..
but love this piece though.. looking forward for the continuation 🙂
true dat! And how do you define troll? I mean if i say One direction is YUCK and so is Justin Bieber, am i a troll?
exactly.. there is a difference between hating and criticizing
Loved it!!!! Can’t wait to see how is it going to go next!
Cheers from Brazil! 😉
Great comic!!! Its good to see something that came from ur imagination great work
Would love to see where this goes, but does it not betray the point of this site?
I thought the premise was to take inspirational quotes from inspirational folks.
Perhaps original artwork and messages should be on another segment/site/what have you.
Obviously, it’s your own thing, and I am not looking down because of this, but I feel like this is out of tune.
Keep up the good work, mate!
I think of this place as a site of inspiration through his art. To that end, Gavin is truly, heartfelt both inspired and inspiring. Just look at all these comments he has inspired with his inspiration!
OKAY! 😀
I sincerely can’t wait to see how this goes. Thank you for improving my day. 🙂 (As always).
Woah…!!! Nice one( of 24) Gav..!!
Good and genuine criticisms are always welcomed.
But it really pisses seeing people pass on silly comments to someones hard work.
I loved it! Very different from what I have seen here till now. Way to go!
you should read this for inspiration: http://gawker.com/on-smarm-1476594977
Yeah, you tell ’em!
Congrats on getting out of your comfort zone.
Totally worth it.
This is awesome.
DEAR EVERYBODY,
SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE F@&#%G COMIC.
<3
NO.
really intresting, i want to see the sdcond part! Thanks!
“If you show yourself, it’s a risk. You take the risk of being rejected. If you have pretensions to being an artist of any kind, you have to take the risk of people rejecting you, thinking you’re an arsehole. “That’s crap.” So, you may
think it is, but it’s me.”-Roger Waters (Pink Floyd)
Love it!
Was just watching something on youtube yesterday called Celebrities Read Mean Tweets. It’s meant to be a bit humorous, but it’s just disgusting how insulting and hateful people think they can be about “public figures” (i.e. anyone on the internet with a viewable profile, nowadays.)
“You write your snide bullshit from a dark room because thats what the angry do nowadays.” – The Social Network
This is great! Cant wait for Part 2! 😀
Well you got me captured, interested to see where this is going.
One point that has just come to me thanks to the other postee ABRASI-ASS or whatever it is, is that trolls seem to be unable to help themselves and seem to keep coming back and even going out there especially just to find stuff to hate, it seems they live on it, and cant live without it.
I imagine that’s how they make themselves feel better by putting others down. No need at all from my angle, sometimes you get whole forums just full of it!
Always follow a criticism with a positive or a suggestion … how hard is that?
Thanks Gav, very thought provoking one for sure!
Gavin!! You have been breeding lots of good thoughts….show me more….AND hey, would you like to explore some on the mental health….like depression, anxiety, hating oneself….
Awesome work. This is going to be great, if you ask me. No quotes needed here. I can’t wait to see how this will evolve. You’ve really nailed it in the first part.
Keep up the good work!
I feel you, nice way to get back at your critics 🙂
Great as always, Gavin!
Now I wonder what’ll happen to #HATRED monster
One interpretation of the comic : )
The energy that inspires negativity is a seed that grows “when watered”. In other words negativity breeds negativity. This is shown by the hate that builds in the first character – it is shown to take a physical toll on him. The comic is not necessarily differentiating between what is good and bad criticism but on what happens when the seed of negativity is watered.
It creates a negativity firstly in the individual and when added to comment by comment, little by little spreads to all of society – thus the heads all exploding and the sludge ending up in a sewer.
In the same way, the energy of positivity breeds positivity, looking forward to the next instalment : ) : )
Thank so much Gav for your thought provoking and perspective shifting work : )
Excellent! Excited for part 2!
I dislike the idea that we aren’t able to think critically about something, or have negative feelings about art.
*explodes*
“My enemies are physically ugly and I fantasize about them dying horrible deaths.”
It’s striking how much latent hostility creeps into many of your comics. Superficially nicey-nice, passive aggressive under the skin.
Love it.
Can’t wait for the rest of the story.
Wow this looks really horrible. Maybe you shou*SPLOGHKDGVYBFFHSOG*
This is well done, I believe I’ll be reading the rest of the series. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – you’re talented and I’m glad you share it.
Dude, you’re doing a great artwork! Waiting for the second part 😉
Congrats!!
This is brilliant. This link should be posted under every youtube comment. Don’t feed the hate monster!
I guess even with all that hate… it will only take a simple line like “Your work is really inspiring” to destroy this menace. Or to transform it…
Great job =)
Your work is really inspiring =)
Great work…………………..
There’s a Twilight Zone episode that has a similar idea called “I Am the Night, Color Me Black.” It’s one of my favorites.
If you haven’t seen it you should check it out after your masterpiece is finished. Can’t wait to see the rest of it.
Can’t wait to see where you’ll go with that
Best Regards
Excellent ! The tweet to rrrMARTIN IS NOT from a troll, for sure.
I don’t think it’s fair as a producer to get angry about the critics, they’re often right, and are made principally to better yourself. Its a free world, giving an opinion is not easy, outsiders are subjective, and after all, you make the stuff for them.
I do agree.
Unfortunately more and more people want internet to become one giant hugbox, where criticism or the mere act of disliking someing are labelled hate and where “circlejerking” is the only acceptable behavior.
I’m a bit disappointed by this comic, but I guess it makes me a troll now…
Our life is shaped by our mind; we become what we think. Suffering follows an evil thought as the wheels of a cart follow the oxen that draw it.
Our life is shaped by our mind; we become what we think. Joy follows a pure thought like a shadow that never leaves.
“He was angry with me, he attacked me, he defeated me, he robbed me” – those who dwell on such thoughts will never be free from hatred.
“He was angry with me, he attacked me, he defeated me, he robbed me” –those who do not dwell on such thoughts will surely become free from hatred.
For hatred can never put an end to hatred; love alone can. This is an unalterable law.
People forget that their lives will end soon. For those who remember, quarrels come to an end.
— from the opening twin verses (couplets) of “The Dharmapada,” collected teachings of the Buddha, translated by Eknath Easwaran (also, one of my favorite Buddhist teachings)
this, i believe, is where the title is pulled from.
and i whole-hearted agree.
as a person who reviews local theatre for an on-line publication, i understand the need of constructive criticism for all of us to try better with each effort and to built upon what we’ve learned, particularly mistakes. in fact, our mistakes our gold. scientists and engineers like to say they don’t just discover the “eureka” moment when they create something cool and innovative or discover and verify something new – what they actually do is discover about a zillion ways, in minute permuatations of tests and re-tests, how to do something wrong, before finally finding the one way to get it right. but they needed to try all those other ways and rule them out first. when critique and discourse is constructive and heard openly, we all benefit, as creators, artists, audiences, scientists, what have you.
the problem is: the instantaneous nature of social media and the internet has created a culture of lobbing quick, one-off word bombs to express quick distaste. our culture has nicknamed this “trolling,” or in previous days, “flame wars” – they quickly escalate, if responded to, in ever nastier and angrier tone, each side entrenching in their own defense and self-justification. but to me, it comes off more like an ambush of someone in the start of a snowball fight (maybe because flurries are blowing strongly outside the window as i write this). yeah, you got one off on that lame kid who you think isn’t so cool from behind the bushes as he walked home, unaware of anything but the snow banks around him. well, good for you. maybe a whole major snowball fight ensued, maybe you wholloped him, maybe it was a draw but you got yer licks in. so what? ultimately, it looks to me just like a snowball fight between bullying kids, and the words eventually melt away and are forgotten like the snow in spring so you don’t even know what the whole thing was about anymore. only the memory of the anger and hurt remain.
but did you learn anything, other than how to improve your snowball aim? did you create anything together? did you learn the value of each others various talents skills? did you take joy together in both the good times and the struggle?
when i write reviews, i try and find what value i can in what was presented, and critique to educate and give context, not to tear down, but so all can learn, both as creators, performers and audience. one of the people who did this best in the 20th century was the British theatre critic, Kenneth Tynan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Tynan), who was lauded, at the time, by British National Theatre Director Peter Brook for now well he contributed to the theatre ecosystem, even when they disagreed.
i feel we have lost, with these one-off attacks that gratify nothing but our own ego in an instantaneous moment, the ability to constructively engage each other in open discourse to learn from each other. for we all have our parts to play and contribute, be we investigator, creator, performer, or audience. and i believe that here is the point the artist of this web comic is trying to make, and one i support wholeheartedly. especially because i love the words of the Dharmapada so.
For indeed – hatred can never put an end to hatred, love alone can do that.
i look forward to each of the subsequent chapters of this comic and enjoy greatly zen pencils in general. thank you for this open and creative gift for all of us to enjoy and engage with in the discourse. many bows to you for it.
— faddah wolf
portland, oregon
You are such an inspiration to me! I like where this is going already.
Wow, Gavin, amazing!! Be brave, break from the mold and do something different and new. We are your #loving audience. I’m excited to see the next chapter. #GreatWork
It’s a bit misleading, one could interpret this as “Every negative opinions are trolls, only praises are acceptable.”
A negative opinion that says nothing and only exists to indulge the petty ego of the commentator is a troll.
But there are a huge number of people on the internet who believe that every little negative outburst they feel should be treated as an “argument” and yell “you can’t handle the truth!” when someone dismisses their junk internet comment as the junk it is.
I would like to think that I can make a comment such as ‘Movie X is bad!’ Or that ‘actor y ruined the movie’ without having to give an analysis or some deep meaning. You know why? Because my facebook is meant for me and my friends, so is my twitter and any other social media. I have the right to express my ‘junk internet comment’ as short as I want. It is not to indulge the ego at all, it is to explain a certain experience. When you read a book and it is wonderful, you can go online and say that you just read a good book. Why is it frowned upon when one goes online and says that the book wasn’t good? Because it is negative? Can you imagine what kind of soppy and fake world we would live in if we could only say positive things and compliments?
Just as in real life if a friend were to ask me ‘do you like singer B?’ i can go on and say ‘nah her voice bugs me’. If that is me expressing my opinion and something that is regarded as normal in real life, why can’t I do it online? Everything I do put out there is for my friends, family and possibly others to see. It is not to force celebrities or artists to quit or change their ways, no no, just to express what I feel about that person or piece of art. To my friends or to a forum of my peers.
They’re not outbursts or arguments, they’re opinions. Opinions don’t need to have some deep level of interpretation or understanding for them to be valid. Sure, if someone comments back and wants to discuss whatever my ‘junk comment’ is, if I feel like it, I’ll indulge them and we can discuss it. Otherwise I don’t see why I should justify every single negative opinion I make online, it is not practical or logical.
Sometimes things are great and sometimes they suck. Just as ‘that movie was so awesome!’ Requires no further explaining nor should ‘ that movie was so bad!’ Unless you’re a critique by profession, i’d like to think I can express my likes and dislikes in whatever way I want.
I really do like this comic but I agree with the others, just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean you hate it or that you’re a troll. It is on the same level as when a girl who doesn’t like another girl gets called ‘ugly and jealous’. Not everything we type and say has to be all rainbows and sunshine and just because what we say isn’t always positive it doesn’t make us hateful or trolls.
You’ve been doing so much great work for so long; you’re entitled to indulge yourself. I think we’re starting on a great journey!
This basically is the equivalent of a child who just recieved criticism for the first time.
There is a difference between hate and healthy critiquing, friend.
fuck you trolls
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The pictures are incredibly vivid! At one point while reading it and scrolling down (as the concrete opened and the sludge started to drift), I heard music in my head adding dramatic flair to the ideas. Music…through my eyes. Thank you for sharing your art with the world!
A nice change of pace… Personally I am more a fan of your inspirational comics, but still i would love to see the rest of it soon.
What is happening
This comic was already pretty ridiculous with the spotty messages (give up everything and throw your life into media! Go pretend to be Ned Stark in the wild just do it do it do it!/Social media is turning us into robots! Please click on my social media buttons above the comic though) but is the creator seriously making a comic about internet trolls
Tbh that’s the kinda thing I’d expect out of a new young artist making a comic on drunkduck and receiving a comment about poor anatomy or whatever and making a comic in response about how the trolls are getting the sensitive artists down, not from here
You… really missed the point.
In reference to the comics you mentioned, I defer to the comments sections, when proper discussion has been presented.
Regarding your second paragraph, you just proved the artist point by making a critic without offering a constructive point.
PS if your head explode, let me know.
I don’t remember any proper discussion around the game of thrones comic, there was much better discussion on tumblr but on this website you’ll just find a lot of asspatting
“without offering a constructive point” I’m saying that it’s a spotty comic but this is ridiculous even for zenpencils, since you seem to need an abridged version of my comment
Also I forgot to mention the one with the native americans that uses a story by a white christian who attributed it to native americans to make it seem more exotic, that was especially shitty
Stop defending creators with sore egos and telling people who offer criticism that they’ve missed the point, you’re creating a culture where discussion can only be around the positives of a piece of media and the very legitimate complaints are dismissed easily
I can understand disregarding especially vitriolic criticism but everything can’t just be positive!!! all the time. If you put yourself in a public space you need to be prepared for a reaction to your creation that’ll help you improve your trade. Zenpencils is stagnant and has no interest in criticism.
Lola, would you sit down, face-to-face with the artist you are now talking about, and tell him that his art is stagnant? Would you repeat all of your previous statements when the living, breathing man, who loves his wife and two dogs and squeezes his beautiful nieces tight every time he sees them – who pours over his work, has risked everything for this, is in front of you?
You’re sitting behind your laptop, your iPad or smartphone , attempting to make a point – I get that. If you do not enjoy ZenPencils for whatever reason, that’s your right. But I am a fan, I get a lot out of Gavin’s work.
He’s inspired me to move to Malaysia and work with their government to write an Aged Care Act. He has hundreds of thousands of fans and has inspired people to think.
All I think when I read your comments, it inspires me too. It inspires me to think you’re a complete cunt.
And, by God, I wish you were in front of me so I could say it to your face.
Even if she doesn’t have the heart to let him down in person doesn’t mean the criticism is less valid. I’m not saying that’s how I feel about his art, I’m just saying that that isn’t the point of her argument.
Looking forward to the next strip, I don’t mind the break from the inspirational quotes. I bet the series will hold its inspiration of its own…and I like the topic too.
I volunteer to be the sole responsible of the scrapping and cleaning of the byproduct of the head explosions, if the CDC decides to make this a real virus.
One can only wish…
I was almost wondering if there would ever be a comic about a subject like this. Zen Pencils seems to have become known-enough to attract the usual crowd of bored internet browsers who simply post “you suck” in response to every creative work put on the internet.
The net is interesting in that way. It gives a great deal of agency to the sort of person that yells angrily at their television as if the people in the box can hear them. Self-publishing makes us feel powerful. With a keystroke the entire world can see what we, our anonymous, unimportant self, want it to read.
Much has been written about the psychology of internet trolling and hatred. But the definitive study on it probably has yet to be performed. We’re still seeing the rules of this distributed communications world being refined before our eyes.
Calling someone out on an uninspired performance is now on par with straight up trolling? Good to see criticism is dead.
THSI COMIK SUXXXXXORZ!
#F*ckwit
Ah, the trolls… Cant want to see how this one ends!
I understand being upset that people criticize you but this is an extremely tacky and juvenile way to respond to that. This reminds me of M. Night Shyamalan having a movie critic character murdered in Lady in the Water.
Speaking as an artist: criticism is a part of our work. Trolling may piss you off, but not everyone with a dissenting view is a troll. Sometimes, people just don’t like what you make.
Wow. What did I just read? This got really interesting really fast. What will happen next? Expecting to see superheroes!!! 😀
Quick! Get tyw jeagers, send in Gantz, anything! !
I’m trying to hold out judgement until the story ends, but touchy much? I mean, having an old lady tweet that a theatre performance was “turgid and uninspiring” and then having her head explode with hatred? That’s pretty ridiculous and seems to speak to some insecurities towards criticism.
Curious to see if people who give positive (but empty and vapid) comments on social media violently explode into a giant flower monster or something.
Heheh
Whoa, now I feel a tad little uncomfortable giving negative feedback. I hope this comic will help us in defining the thin line between negative feedback and aggressive trolling – and where does one identify and draw it. And yes, I hope this series is not the artist himself consumed by the hatred that he is hoping to demonize and fight. Cheers!!
I think you’re really good. Your comics even make me feel emotional at times. They are so cute sometimes I even have a couple of tears. They are touching and heartfelt. 🙂 Thanks for doing them.
Bad.
Although I understand that trolling can be a painful experience for the targets of this practice, I’m sorry to say this is one of the poorest stories I’ve read here since I’ve had the pleasure of discovering Zen Pencils.
I find the idea of exploding heads, either in toilets or in public, tasteless, to say the least.
The idea of an old man waking up to the sound/slime (not to mention horror) of his wife’s exploding head is just poor.
The idea of having to deal with the shock of such a death, even when talking about a stranger (agonizingly more so in the case of a loved one) is just shocking.
Even if all those people were such vile, insufferable “trolls”, there has to be a better way for them to receive their “just” punishment, other than shocking innocent passersby or loved ones (or the people who simply have to clean the mess afterwards, paramedics, janitors etc.)
I’m sorry, I found the treatment of this issue quite poor -especially in the end, the idea that trolling becomes a sort of collective monster that ruins even more havoc is…
I suppose the “safest” option would be to “withhold judgement” until the second part is out, but I found the treatment so disturbing and wrong on many levels, that I felt I should write something.
Some of my thoughts mirrored your own, here. In fact the relish, I assume, with which Gavin sketched, penciled, inked, and painted each head explosion I felt was in bad taste – particularly the old lady who was being quite civil in her review. Still, I figured this comic was probably more of a catharsis than anything else.
It would have been typical of ZP if the trolls were mocking some little girl drawing with sidewalk chalk and she berates them with some beautiful little saying by someone like Robert Frost or Maya Angelou. But real art isnt about what the people want. It is the expression of creator’s raw emotion – even when that emotion is anger. And that emotion can often make us uncomfortable, and sometimes even angry ourselves.
Gav, I’ve admired your work before, but never commented until now.
I’m a writer, and I’ve been kind of shocked by the reviews, hate mail, and YouTube comments that spew out of critics, which you captured so well. Please keep going with this series. There’s a difference between thoughtful, constructive criticism and trolls.
And for anyone who ever felt sidelined by haters, I’ve been comforted by words by Jennifer Wright, formerly of thegloss.com (blogged about it here: http://melissayuaninnes.com/writing-through-the-one-star-reviews-7/). My friend Kandy also sent me the perfect video: http://www.upworthy.com/a-song-to-play-every-time-you-see-a-sexist-racist-or-homophobic-comment-online?c=ufb1
Wow…
For a while I thought that was reading a Garbage Pail Kids comic…
Ok, Ok, bad joke, but reat work from your part
This work is rubbish. What a waste of internet space. KIDDING! 🙂
I love all of your work man. 🙂 Please please please keep it up. I go to your site often, especially during bad days.
Cheers
I can already feel the epicness ensuing #hatecomic #zenpencils
This touches on a subject which has been close to my heart for a while and I’m glad to see you doing a multi part piece on it.
There is valuable constructive criticism to be had for sure, but I feel the internet as a general whole has become a massive hate monster, eager to jump on any new artist who dates to put themselves out there.
Sure, there’s lot’s of uncurated crap to be had which doesn’t deserve the time of day, but if you don’t like something, why not just move on instead of attacking or criticising? Just my own thoughts to add, I suppose.
But well done, I for one love this piece and look forward to the next!
wow that batman mob leader villain really did a good impression on you. I like him a lot too!
Great work by the way, would love to see how it progresses.
I’m looking forward to this one. Keep on keepin’ on, Gav. Remember: if you don’t have haters, you’re not doing it right.
Every opinion is as valid as another opinion. Ergo every opinion is as wrong as another opinion.
hate exists. deal with it. is as valid as any other opinion, because is just an opinion.
that’s a logical fact.
thinking that your opinion is a fact, without backing it up is trolling.
trolling =/= hate.
I can hate the nolan batman since destroys the detective nature of batman and transformed it into punisher. that’s not trolling, is easily comprobable and is not positive, but is hate.
and sorry for my engrish, is not my native language (haters gonna hate) at least i’m learning something.
Negativity breeds negativity which is what I am getting from this. If you start being snarky as a response to everything it can steamroll out of control until you are consumed by a monster who is full of hate. Even little negative comments actually hurt the person who says it more than the person who it is directed at even if they don’t realise it. Cannot wait to see how this comic plays out Gav, beautiful work as always.
If there’s one thing zenpencils has taught me it’s that if I dare to not be positive all the time in my enjoyment of media I’ll explode into a pile of snot and then a cartoonist will spend hours sketching out a really brutal depiction of my demise as payback.
You made me LOL, LOLA.
Hey Gav, I’m a fan of your work for a long time since your strips helped me get over my depression, but only now I had the courge to tell that after this masterpiece. Your works are amazing!
Can’t wait to see the rest!
Exquisite drawing, great story, cool topic. Well, love your page, it’s really amazing.
Very cool idea! And brave that you are developing your own stuff.
Am I only the one who interpreted the old woman, toilet guy, and the others as only reading negative comments online before their heads exploded? Skimming the comments here, it seems that generally it’s assumed that those characters were also posting negative comments online. My read was that Super Troll guy’s stream of negativity so infected the online discourse that even the readers were infected with the negativity/trolling infection. But I can see how it can be read the other way as well, though.
Very excited to see you trying something new (without the “crutch”). Your quote-based stories have all been very original so I have no doubt that a non-quote comic will be just as thought-provoking. Always love your artwork, particularly the flow from panel to panel. Keep it up (and don’t let the trolls stop you)! 😉
I love this and cannot wait for the rest! Heads exploding are the perfect way to illustrate what hate can do. I’m excited that you’re doing something that’s completely yours too! It was bound to happen eventually 🙂 Not that I don’t love the quotes though!
Hardly a surprise to anyone who’s spent any time on the net, but science confirms what we’ve always suspected: “Internet Trolls Really Are Horrible People: Narcissistic, Machiavellian, psychopathic, and sadistic.”
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/climate_desk/2014/02/internet_troll_personality_study_machiavellianism_narcissism_psychopathy.html
Just like to point out criticism of a theater performance is fairly useful, and that sometimes people need to have a thicker skin. An issue like this isn’t cut and dry.
The comic isn’t about high-minded criticism but drek commentary building up into a toxic environment of drek.
I really don’t know how is your spanish. but this example to beath the #hate is awesome. maybe it can inspire you to the nest steps.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203262314861521&set=a.1922411542848.2114010.1318879212&type=1&theater
Zen Pencils, the comic so bad your head explodes.
I think it totally rocks that you are taking a new direction/trying something different.
While I am interested to see where this goes I do think there is a legitimate place for critiquing art and performance and that legitimate critique stands apart from trolling. Critique is specific and concrete whereas trolling simply denigrates with work for no given reason.
So, I think this pretty much sums up what Gavin is going for with this story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI&feature=share&list=FLRt0U58jRj9AM-lGjcpU10Q&index=14
Great work, Gavin! Cheers!
How are these “troll-ish”? In my opinion, actual troll comments would insult you for personal reasons that have nothing to do with the actual work.
Really, if you can’t handle a few negative comments about your work, you are in the wrong goddamn business. It’s one thing for someone to tell you “go kill yourself” or “you’re ugly and you’re probably gay”, but most of these comments? Just negative opinions on a work, not the creator personally. No different than, say, film critics giving something a 1-star review.
If you’re complaining about negative feedback YOU’VE received…then, God, this pisses me off. I would KILL for some of the critical attention you’ve received. I WANT people to tell me if I’m doing something wrong so that I can fix it before the problem gets worse. There’s nothing that frustrates me more in the art industry than thin-skinned creators getting tons of critiques that they complain about while those who WANT to improve don’t get a single word of constructive criticism.
I do apologize if any of those words wounded you, but I think some people in the arts seriously underestimate how useful critics can be.
WHO YOU GONNA CALL?!
GHOSTBUSTERS!
Your work would be pretty good – possibly even excellent and, I admit, quite inspiring – if only we lived in a universe with slightly different physical constants and in which camel shit would taste like lavender honey and brain glioma would give you xray vision.
Keep it up !
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The best Zoofilia in the world
Hatred breeds hatred. That’s exactly why it’s a bad idea to take on trolls, it’s impossible to do so out of anything but anger and hatred. If you are in command of your emotions it becomes fairly obvious that they’re childish, and deserve only to be ignored. Once ignored they are typically defanged. Challenging them only breeds more hate.
Eat Mah Pusseh!
Cry me a river
TED about hate in social media:
http://www.ted.com/talks/jon_ronson_what_happens_when_online_shaming_spirals_out_of_control
or on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAIP6fI0NAI
It is clear that hatred only generates ever more hate, it is a chain that we learn that we have to break, people do not know forgive and forget and always seek revenge, it is the worst.
than you for info
Nice story, this theme or point made by the 4 part story is very much on the lines of what i was and i am feeling when i surf the internet … on social sites like FB, Youtube, … to express hatred, and to criticize has been made very easy … that everyone does it almost immediately, and the hatred spreads like anything on a medium like internet. …. Good job ! … keep posting such stuff…. hats off to you ! RESPECT!
I feel most ministers who claim they’ve heard God’s voice are eating too much pizza before they go to bed at night, and it’s really an intestinal disorder, not a revelation.
I have no doubt at all the Devil grins,
As seas of ink I spatter.
Ye gods, forgive my “literary” sins—
The other kind don’t matter.
The hardest part of raising a child is teaching them to ride bicycles. A shaky child on a bicycle for the first time needs both support and freedom. The realization that this is what the child will always need can hit hard.
Thank you Gavin for your “The Artist-Troll War 1: HATRED BREEDS HATRED” comic post
http://vuelosdelalma.blogspot.com/2013/11/kampung-inggris-pare-kediri.html
Be content to act, and leave the talking to others. Baltasar
thanks for your content and the comics
This should be a good teaching before us human beings, we should take the example!
we are very happy to see it thanks writing such nice comment
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